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John-SJW

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A small under counter AEG fridge. Instructions say it is fitted with a 13A fuse in the plug. Also states it must be replaced by a 13A fuse. The fridge is drawing 0.32 amps. A 13A fuse is ridiculously oversized. If having a mcb or RCBO at the CU for just the fridge, a 1.00mm cable can be run on a radial for it.

The instructions do say that a qualified or competent electrician must fit the appliance, so a get out for them. If the electrician say 3A will do then that is that I suppose. Do many ignore these types of instructions and say insert a 3A fuse in the plug? Safer.
 
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The connection behind the dryer is on Wagos, which gives a better contact than screwed terminals.
Click to expand...

I might explore this quite wide-ranging assertion in another thread when I have more time.
 
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13A FCUs aren't much better than a plug these days. This example I replaced this week with a 20A DP switch after a maintenance company had replaced it three times this year with a FCU, supplies a ceiling heater and this wasn't poor connections. It is welded in the on position.
[ElectriciansForums.net] Fuse too big on fridge
 
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westward10 said:
13A FCUs aren't much better than a plug these days. This example I replaced this week with a 20A DP switch after a maintenance company had replaced it three times this year with a FCU, supplies a ceiling heater and this wasn't looView attachment 86165se connections.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The same bad connection could just as likely be at an FCU as the plug.
 
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westward10 said:
13A FCUs aren't much better than a plug these days. This example I replaced this week with a 20A DP switch after a maintenance company had replaced it three times this year with a FCU, supplies a ceiling heater and this wasn't poor connections. It is welded in the on position. View attachment 86165
Click to expand...
How about a DP mcb in a box as an isolator.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Fuse too big on fridge


[ElectriciansForums.net] Fuse too big on fridge
 
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westward10 said:
13A FCUs aren't much better than a plug these days. This example I replaced this week with a 20A DP switch after a maintenance company had replaced it three times this year with a FCU, supplies a ceiling heater and this wasn't poor connections. It is welded in the on position. View attachment 86165
Click to expand...
I came across an oven and induction hob with flash looking chrome isolators on the worktop. The tenant was using the isolators as the on-off switchs, sometimes switching when large currents are being drawn. The contacts were burning out. It was a flat with luckily both appliances having their own mcb's at the CU. I removed the isolators, connecting the cables using Wagos then fitted chrome blanking plates over. Danger gone.
 
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John-SJW said:
I came across an oven and induction hob with flash looking chrome isolators on the worktop. The tenant was using the isolators as the on-off switchs, sometimes switching when large currents are being drawn. The contacts were burning out. It was a flat with luckily both appliances having their own mcb's at the CU. I removed the isolators, connecting the cables using Wagos then fitted chrome blanking plates over. Danger gone.
Click to expand...

Am I missing something here? You removed the local isolation for a cooking appliance? So if something happens and they need to isolate in an emergency, they have to go back to the consumer unit and switch the MCB off. And find the right MCB and hopefully not knock the lights off by mistake.

I'd have been educating the customer on using it as an isolator, not an operational switch.
 
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DPG said:
Am I missing something here? You removed the local isolation for a cooking appliance? So if something happens and they need to isolate in an emergency, they have to go back to the consumer unit and switch the MCB off. And find the right MCB and hopefully not knock the lights off by mistake.

I'd have been educating the customer on using it as an isolator, not an operational switch.
Click to expand...
The CU was well and clearly labelled. Customer was told if a problem go to the CU which was in the hall at face level. All easy to get to. But danger gone.

I have seen local isolators in adjacent cupboards, which the customer never knew were there as the corn flakes blocked the view. In rented properties with constant new tenants, safety is paramount. Many forget what you tell them the next day. Reduce switches and any weak points. Keep all well labelled.
 
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John-SJW said:
I am making a point of the low current draw.
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Yes you were.
You also talked about using an incorrect cable size. This was the part I highlighted and pointed you in the direction of the reg.
 
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I’m pretty sure removing local isolation in the kitchen goes against the building standards in Scotland, I’d be surprised if it wasn’t also against the building regulations in England & Wales.

However, I’m not surprised you decided to remove them given your attitude to other regulations is pretty much “I know best and will apply my common sense”. I wonder whether similar attitudes might turn up in the Grenfell inquiry?
 
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Spoon said:
Yes you were.
You also talked about using an incorrect cable size. This was the part I highlighted and pointed you in the direction of the reg.
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I was making a point that the current draw so so low a 1.00mm cable would do. BTW, 1.00mm would not be electrically incorrect. It would be safe with the appropriate mcb/RCBO, big enough to handle the appliance. A reg and being electrically sound are different.
 
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dodger421 said:
I’m pretty sure removing local isolation in the kitchen goes against the building standards in Scotland, I’d be surprised if it wasn’t also against the building regulations in England & Wales.

However, I’m not surprised you decided to remove them given your attitude to other regulations is pretty much “I know best and will apply my common sense”. I wonder whether similar attitudes might turn up in the Grenfell inquiry?
Click to expand...
Not against regs in England. My attitude was safety, the contacts were burning, not going by some reg that may mean it is not safe. And in the future it will never cause a fire, as it is not there any longer.
 
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John-SJW said:
Not against regs in England. My attitude was safety, the contacts were burning, not going by some reg that may mean it is not safe. And in the future it will never cause a fire, as it is not there any longer.
Click to expand...

Bad logic. Remove a method of safe isolation because connections may become loose - certainly not what I would expect from a sparky.
 
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DPG said:
Bad logic. Remove a method of safe isolation because connections may become loose - certainly not what I would expect from a sparky.
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Removed a component that was burning and a potential fire. If replaced the same situation still could arise. Easy to understand. Safe isolation was nearby, feet away, at a CU. Local isolation is totally unnecessary, and no reg even states it should be there - and a potential fire risk, as I simply explained. Sound, simple logic. I do NOT like people being injured or dying.
 
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John-SJW said:
I was making a point that the current draw so so low a 1.00mm cable would do. BTW, 1.00mm would not be electrically incorrect. It would be safe with the appropriate mcb/RCBO, big enough to handle the appliance. A reg and being electrically sound are different.
Click to expand...

You are an electrician aren't you. We work to the regs.
It would be 'electrically incorrect' as it would be marked as a deviation from the regs in a report.
 
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John-SJW said:
Removed a component that was burning and a potential fire. If replaced the same situation still could arise. Easy to understand. Isolation was nearby, feet away, at a CU. Local isolation is totally unnecessary, and no reg even states it should be there - and a potential fire risk, as I simply explained. Sound, simple logic. I do like people being injured or dying.
Click to expand...
Hopefully a typo, but judging by some of your comments here and previously (multiple spurs from a single Wago springs to mind) I’d not be surprised if that was true.
 
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Spoon said:
You are an electrician aren't you. We work to the regs.
It would be 'electrically incorrect' as it would be marked as a deviation from the regs in a report.
Click to expand...
No reg says local isolation is needed.
You should work to your electrical training and knowledge, not be like one of these, rear end covering, moronic, reg followers.
 
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