18 Days to come qualified

[Redvanman]

I was amazed when told about this

Bronze: Domestic Installer Course

You even get to pass the test and inspect course.

is this really possible starting with no knowledge

Christ this really is belittling our trade. Now I know why I make a good living of sorting out bodge jobs.

 

[flyingsausage]

I recently snagged a new house wire, fully signed off already by a newly qualified electrician who was NIC Domestic Installer. He had been trading for 4 months or so. The new owners called me in as I had rewired their parents home some years ago. They were having numerous problems and the original sparks was AWOL. Here is a list of what I had to do.

Re-do the 3 way lighting to hall stairs and landing as the intermediate switch was incorrectly wired.
Replace badly wired recessed downlights as cables were scorched
Re-site the above as 3 were up against beams.
Rewire fan isolators as fans were on permanently
Fix compression faults in cooker and shower boxes as 6mm and 10mm cable squeezed into 25mm boxes.
Remove DG socket from above sink
Fit link cables between mains fire alarms. ( They were non radio linked ,individually powered from lighting roses.
Conductor identification throughout house ( there was none)
Heat alarm to kitchen (smoke fitted)
Extend smoke alarm system to intregal garage ( nothing there) to fit heat alarm
Mark up CU
Reconfigure CU ( was a mess)
Fit earth to water
Rewire central heating system ( S plan +) CH only working when HW enabled
Fit waterproof socket outside ( Metal DG socket fitted there)
Find and fix earth pulled from ring in Lounge

There were a few other things but you get the picture I guess

Qualifications mean nothing, experience is everything

By the time you charged them for hours and materials and the cost of the original job,it would have been much cheaper to get a proper spark to do the job in the first place.

Where you said they put 6mm and 10 mm cable into 25mm boxes is very scary and I would never have thought that was possible,there must have been a risk off arcing between the terminals and the back box(if it was metal).I also would not trust the terminations as they must have been under a lot of sideways pressure to get fitted into a box that is far too small.

 

[trev]

I wonder if our friend NICEIC engineer would like to pass comment on how he feels about this. Not trotting out the party line, his own opinion.

 

[flyingsausage]

They have a vested interest in maintaining the staus quo as it is that which is providing them with a living. Surely the trade as a whole should be getting together to drive standards up not down. I know that bit is slightly off topic but the training providers have the ear of the scams, the scams have the ear of the government

Training for safety at work has turned into an industry in it's own right and it has plenty of money to lobby for more compulsory training under the guise of safety.The CSCS or ECS ticket to renew your grade card if a like a tax to earn your living.
This type of training is much the same,you will find that the owners of these training centers are tied into the schemes that you call scams,and they are making a good real of money from mugs that believe what they are told to sign up for the course and be a spark at the end of it.

 

[flyingsausage]

Along the same lines as this thread

Last year a friend of mines parents bought a small bungalow to retire in,it was quite old and in need of a full rewire,windows,kitchen,bathroom,roof,gutters etc.
I went round to have a look at it and they asked me to recommend someone to rewire it,I gave them two names and numbers and said they will not be the cheapest but they will do a good job and come back to sort any issues.
AND ALWAYS ASK TO SEE THE GRADE CARD OF ANY ONE YOU ASK TO COME ROUND TO GIVE YOU A QUOTE.

They tried the two sparks I gave them and thought that they were a bit expensive so decided to try other so called sparks that advertised in the local paper - they tried four different numbers and had four different chancers.
It seems that when they wanted look at a grade card that two of them could not get out there fast enough.
One did not seem to have a clue what he was talking about electrical wise and the fourth admited he was a plumber.

So it seemed that out of the four different ones they tried they never got a decent spark between.

My friends parents then went with one of the sparks I recommended and were very happy with him and his work,and he came back twice to fix a couple of little things and never charged to coming back.
It goes to show that word of mouth is important and if the customer thinks they will save money with a cheaper quote most of the time they will be spending more as they have to get someone into fix the orginal installation.

 

[flyingsausage]

Trev - I have just came across this thread and I know these scam trainers are out there but it goes right on my nerves how wrong it is that they even exist and are seemingly getting plenty of men out there who are happy to put their hands in their pocket every week and give these scumbags a good living.
And only after they do these qualifications that they are next to useless in the real world.

 

[flyingsausage]

It's not my decision who advertises on the forum, I have no say in this whatsoever. Given they're as much a part of the electrical industry landscape as they are, if it was my decision they'd stay as advertisers. I've already stated my view that I don't think the training providers are to blame, they don't make the laws and they don't set the technical requirements or standards of the electrical courses.

They are just the same as agencies,they are parasites selling a useless and dangerous product to stupid misinformed public.

 

[Marvo]

They are just the same as agencies,they are parasites selling a useless and dangerous product to stupid misinformed public.

I'm not disagreeing but rather go after the cause than the symptoms. If you want them gone it's pointless going after them one by one, even if you do manage to get rid of one or two of them, others will just take their place. Rather focus your efforts and lobby the legislators. If there's enough people making enough noise you'd be surprised what can be achieved. Here's a text-book case in point link

 

[Guitarist]

I'm not disagreeing but rather go after the cause than the symptoms. If you want them gone it's pointless going after them one by one, even if you do manage to get rid of one or two of them, others will just take their place. Rather focus your efforts and lobby the legislators. If there's enough people making enough noise you'd be surprised what can be achieved. Here's a text-book case in point link

Have you ever tried lobbying for anything here in the UK? I have, and I may have well written to my Daughter's cuddly toys for all the good it does.

 

[Beardyjar]

I qualified as an electrician in Spain 10 years ago and have worked in both the domestic sector and on Hospital installations in Spain and Africa. My course in Spain was over a year long and 2 years working for an approved electrician. Recently I sent my qualifications to the UK to see if they were transferable. I was informed that they were no accepted in any way in the UK. I would have thought it showed more training anfd experience than an 18 day course

 

[UNG]

I qualified as an electrician in Spain 10 years ago and have worked in both the domestic sector and on Hospital installations in Spain and Africa. My course in Spain was over a year long and 2 years working for an approved electrician. Recently I sent my qualifications to the UK to see if they were transferable. I was informed that they were no accepted in any way in the UK. I would have thought it showed more training anfd experience than an 18 day course

Probably way over qualified for the UK these days that's why they wouldn't accept your quals LOL.

 

[Guitarist]

You obviously haven't paid the right people to give you one of their certificates.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Here is a post i wrote on a recent thread 'military electrician'. It was in reply to a reply by 'tradesskills4u' (or a similar name).

"All the views do seem a bit extreme (including yours Trade4skills).

I do think an apprenticeship for 5 years is too much if all you want to do is domestic.. however 18 days is definitely not enough, nowhere near enough, especially if you have no electrical experience before hand. I had no prior knowledge before my 6 month domestic installers course (one evening a week) and afterwards I would not have been competent to re-wire a house, even though the tutors were brilliant. I'm a pretty intelligent guy (didn't like saying that, but its to emphasis the point) but after a year since finishing the course I am only just approaching the ability to re-wire a house and thats after spending lots of time with trained electricians.

I think the Domestic Installers course has potential but it should not be 18 days, it should be perhaps 6 months full time (also say a year part time as it attracts many people who want to keep working but try something different) which includes time spent with qualified electricians working in actual houses."

 

[Guitarist]

Being competent isn't simply about being able to "wire a circuit". We all know that even simple domestic work involves chasing walls, lifting floorboards, making good, as well as the obligatory fault-finding included with most jobs we get called-out to. There is absolutely NO WAY that I would consider anyone competent in 18 days to be let loose on somebody's home.... It's just plain wrong as far as I'm concerned.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Being competent isn't simply about being able to "wire a circuit". We all know that even simple domestic work involves chasing walls, lifting floorboards, making good, as well as the obligatory fault-finding included with most jobs we get called-out to. There is absolutely NO WAY that I would consider anyone competent in 18 days to be let loose on somebody's home.... It's just plain wrong as far as I'm concerned.

I comlpetely agree Guitarist as I've said in my post, but do you think that someone who will only be working within a domestic situation should serve exactly the same length and level of apprenticeship as someone who who will be working within industry and the commercial sector? i.e a lengthy apprenticeship. In other areas of society.. medicine, teaching etc there are different levels of qualifications that dictate what level of work you can undertake. I have very little experience in the electrical industry so I could be completely wrong but I do feel that a shorter course (6 months, full time, working in actual homes with experienced electricians) may be adequate for a Domestic Installers course.

I'd be interested in what the experienced electricians think of that?

 

[oldtimer]

I wonder if our friend NICEIC engineer would like to pass comment on how he feels about this. Not trotting out the party line, his own opinion.

Na as long as you can pay your subs your in