Campaign for licensing!

[IQ Electrical]

L-E-C.org.uk - The Licensed Electricians Campaign

Very interesting, you may wish to sign, it's a start at least?

 

[tonys]

That famous way with words again.

A LICENSING SCHEME, IN THIS COUNTRY, WILL JUST END UP AS ANOTHER WAY TO LINE THE GOVERNMENT'S COFFERS WITH NO BENEFIT TO US.

Why not concentrate on making the current system actually work the way it's supposed to? I.e. part P being upheld and policed properly? The heavy commercial and industrial sector have even less requirement for a 'licence', as it's fairly difficult for 'cowboys' and untrained people to carve a career in these areas.

Part P lines the pockets of FREELOADERS, get rid of it, it gives the impression all members are Qualified Competent Electricians when in fact they are not.

For years, NICEIC Approved Contractors and ECA Approved Contractors have always been the daddies of Commercial/Industry Contracts and still are.

JIB is the only bonafide Registration body for Qualified Competent Electricians.

So there you have it, NICEIC, ECA (Elesca), JIB. No need for Napit or any other body or Part P.

 

[sbrown2]

Interesting, I fit the JIB criteria you mention. But I do not agree with the "no need for NAPIT". If you look at part of this thread it mentions the rip off of joining different schemes and the costs involved. Whereas with NAPIT you get the option to join multiple schemes, granted not all electrical, for a lower fee.

 

[Benny_Boy]

plus the fact that you don't have to pay a PIR tax like NICEIC would have you pay.

 

[sbrown2]

In nottingham also and looking at joining NAPIT as soon as the funds are available.

 

[IQ Electrical]

plus the fact that you don't have to pay a PIR tax like NICEIC would have you pay.

Just to make it clear, you can carry out a PIR without any scheme membership so long as you are competent to do so!

The NICEIC charge a fee for assessment of PIR's, in other words, if you wish to issue an NICEIC badged Periodic Inspection Report under the assessment scheme of the NICEIC.

From the quality of the PIR's that I come across on a day to day basis, I fully understand the NICEIC approach, I certainly wouldn't allow my name to be attached to the toilet paper that regularly has a PIR label on it!

 

[rocker]

So I still don't understand what the point of a national licence is? You'd still require different levels of licencing for different jobs - I spent enough time, thanks very much, on apprenticeship/2391/part p, I'm happy in domestic and light commercial, I have ABSOLUTELY NO aspiration to work on HV, industrial and most heavy commecial stuff, and there are plenty more like me, who like to work in the warm. So what kind of licence will I have? Well, I'd say it's going to be pretty close to part p, or what part p is meant to be anyway. But it will cost more, as it will now have to be policed in an industry-wide capacity. And you'll have to still pay for your part p; as has already been said, no government in their right minds are going to dissolve these organisations. And the five-week-wonders, well, they will be allocated a licence level that says they can only work on domestics. Um yep just like part p.

So what about the guy who only wants to work on HV? Well, we've got the JIB at the moment, who are essentially telling you what you can be paid dependant on your 'level' (which they determine themselves) as far as I understand - I personally don't see why the system is so good but you lot seem to like it. You're not going to get some Charlie buying a transit, writing bodgit and scarper up the side and working on industrial without any qualifications, are you? It's just not going to happen. So why do we require a license here? All that's going to do is cost the commercial and industrial guys more money out of their paycheck at the end of the month.

So what's the point?

Is it so that more experienced sparks can show off how experienced they are?

Is it because the guys who work on industrial can't now do cash jobs in the evenings? It seems to me this is one of the reasons a lot of people moan about part p, but just because you work with massive transformers every day, that doesn't necessarily mean you know how to feed a cable into the ceiling without damaging the coving, or how to limit the spread of fire throughout a building you're drilling holes in, or get a carpet back down nice and tidy. Just because you are good on the heavy side, doesn't mean you can just walk into domestic and give the customers what they want - there ARE people who make this their career, it's not just a case of shoving a bit of twin and earth here and there.

And if it isn't then why do industial guys get so worked up about part p? It doesn't even affect you.

Anyhow, I'm digressing. I guess my point is I don't see a need for any form of licencing in any area of the industry OTHER THAN the domestic end, where people who don't know what they are doing can mess around with things. In this area, we do currently have a sort of licence, it's part P, currently it doesn't work, but if it was made to work it would solve this problem. In heavier areas, if you don't have the quals, you won't get the job, so what's the point of a licence other than to fleece the working man even harder?

And as I keep saying, even if this was started with the best will in the world, it will absolutely just end up as another thing you're forced to chuck money at, getting nothing in return. That is the way the goverment (regardless of political affiliation) of this country works, and if you think any different you are sorely mistaken.

 

[NMc]

This is an old chestnut and if I remember correctly in thge past it was consider to be duplicating the JIB registeration

Looking at the reason for this then it is up to existing electricians to achieve the reasons why. It is up to us to improve standard and earn the respect. You will never remove the cowboys in any industry and high achievers will not doubt have other visions

I am all for one central point which gets rid of all the existing different organisations and combines them all but I am not sure this is the answer

It more likely to be another expense placed on top of the many others we pay

 

[Benny_Boy]

So there are really a couple of things which might make it all better in theory.

1) the requirement to have a portfolio of work prior to taking your sparky exams. (like gas safe)
2) The public being threatened with prosecution if they have electrical work carried out by unregistered persons. That way the public would INSIST on their electrician being registered. It has to come from the public being scared they'll get a huge fine.

 

[NMc]

Not sure what you are getting at in point 1 Benny_Boy but point 2 could help

 

[rocker]

Agree with you entirely benny, but again, that's what Part P SHOULD be doing. The fact that it's not is neither here nor there, who's to say the licensing authority will police it any better? Once again, it has no benefit - the real issue is to make Part P work - to ensure the public is aware; to ensure that BOTH the public and unauthorised and untrained installers are actively persued and prosecuted; and to ensure the people carrying out the work on through it's schemes are genuinely competent. NOT just carry on being the money spinning load of rubbish it has been so far.

So where's the need for a seperate licence?

 

[Engineer54]

Not sure where some of you are getting the idea that a national registration system is going to be more expense?? If your getting rid of the profit based providers and the JIB, in favour of a national registration of qualified electricians, ....Where is the extra expense??? Your actually cutting out the parasites...

The local authorities will have to accept your license, and will basically work the same way as if you were with a a present day provider. The only thing i would say, is that the registration system would have to be transparent.

The idea is, that it is ''Mandatory'' for every electrician in the land to be Registered, unlike today, where you choose to join-up with a particular provider or become a JIB electrician.

 

[IQ Electrical]

The restriction of sales of electrical accessories etc. would also have to form part of any new system, that alone would be a major 'deal breaker' for me.

I tried to make a purchase from an Electricfix branch a few months back and they refused our business until we provided proof of NICEIC membership!

I was very impressed at the integrity shown and I walked out of there thinking 'this can really work' !!

 

[rocker]

That's it mate, I ain't JIB registered and I don't plan on being in the foreseeable..... so I have to pay to my scheme provider to do domestic work and I have to pay to the licence body for a licence I don't need. There's no way the Part P bodies and the JIB are going to join forces, and if they did it would be an administrative nightmare, far worse that what we have now. The governments won't get rid of either-or (rightly, we seem to forget that there are a lot of people who'd lose their jobs if we got rid of JIB or part-p, it's not their fault the system is flawed, why should they suffer?) so we are stuck with essentially the JIB being compulsory and with a different name, and part P having it's slice of the pie as well. AND there would mean more government involvement, i.e. more people, who have no idea of the industry, on the gravy train, corrupting it, making stupid rules and regulations, and being paid by yours truly. And of course once they've got their jobs they need to keep them, so more and more useless and impeding rules every year. More books to buy, more courses to take. Money money money, it's all it's about and it's yours they want, people.

It's not that I don't feel things need changing, I just find all this licence talk completely unnecessary, like it's going to come and be the answer to all our dreams, and it's not. People in Egypt and Tunisia may be able to get what they want, unfortunately this country is far too civilised to be uncorrupt.

 

[rocker]

The restriction of sales of electrical accessories etc. would also have to form part of any new system, that alone would be a major 'deal breaker' for me.

I tried to make a purchase from an Electricfix branch a few months back and they refused our business until we provided proof of NICEIC membership!

I was very impressed at the integrity shown and I walked out of there thinking 'this can really work' !!

That is an excellent point, and one that can be easily implemented to part p/JIB right now. They could do it tomorrow. 'If you want to go in a wholesalers, we want proof you're in a scheme, JIB card, CSCS card, hell even something to say you work for a company which needs such things. Otherwise, I'll sell you a lightswitch, and it won't be a bloody 2-way one'. Easy peasy.

 

[Engineer54]

The restriction of sales of electrical accessories etc. would also have to form part of any new system, that alone would be a major 'deal breaker' for me.

I tried to make a purchase from an Electricfix branch a few months back and they refused our business until we provided proof of NICEIC membership!

I was very impressed at the integrity shown and I walked out of there thinking 'this can really work' !!

I see your point IQ, and agree. But presently, that would mean that a Qualified Electrician, say working in the industrial side of our industry, or even say myself a C Eng would be shown the door!!!! Meaning, were not qualified because were not paying a scam provider to use their logo. And this is where it's all wrong. These providers have got the industry (and everyone else) believing that your only qualified if your paying a fee to there company.
From what i can understand, all these providers have there own fair share of cowboys, that there actually protecting, instead of ostracizing... So at this moment in time, this practice of refusing sales purely based on not being with a scam provider sucks, to my mind...