Consumer unit fire - advice please

[Hundleton1]

The problem with insurance companies is they are always looking someone to blame, sometimes things just happen, wires come loose, parts fail.

Don't get to involved with it, as has been said tell your insurance company you accept no liability and suggest it may be a manufacturing issue and let them fight it out.

Its very easy to get involved and feel sorry for the victim but its not worth it you will just open your self up to further problems.


As for the other ones you fitted of that make if you have details it would do no harm to pick 3 and do a free inspection, will cost you half a day and put your mind ease, should you do find the same potential issue you can then go to the manufacture with it.

 

[dan86]

Christ, imagine if he picked 3 at random, did an inspection and only One of them also had a fire! talk about bad luck!

 

[Guitarist]

This is why Electrical Engineers (of which there are a few of us here) underwent a mechanical as well as electrical apprenticeship. I often have to replace MCB's because the numpty who installed them used the wrong screwdriver and the head is completely shot. Is it too much to ask for our fellow electricians to know the difference between a philips and a pozi head???
Regarding differences, my favourite is the difference between a bolt and a machine screw. Hardly any understand that one.

 

[EastAnglian]

When I attended a briefing about the revisions to BS7671:2008 we were warned specifically about this behaviour from the insurance industry. It was in relation to that small and almost innocuous phrase "fitted in accordance with manufacturers' instructions". As Consumer Units and RCDs etc are supplied with information on specific torque settings for screws we were strongly advised to use a torque screwdriver when installing DBs, otherwise how else can you be certain you are complying with the manufacturers requirements.

Apparently insurance companies have been seizing this opportunity to claim that a consumer unit was not fitted correctly where it has been highlighted as the cause of a fire, thereby nullifying the householder's claim. The householder, of course, then tries to seek re-dress from the installer.

All the earlier advice about saying nothing and referring this directly to your insurer is exactly right, and I would support the view that you have a strong case for saying that from a professional perspective you have done everything you can to make this installation safe, including checking screws are tight. Of course, if you do have a torque screw driver and can demonstrate somehow that you use it regularly on DB installs this will strengthen your case.

I also agree with the other comments on the poor quality of screws in DBs. I find that sometimes I will round off a screw-head before it has reached the necessary torque, and then I have to raid a 'spare' one from an unused terminal.

Good luck, and stay positive.

 

[SKY]

MK used to be the gold standard for DBs but recently they have become very poor with soft connections.
Legrand also used to be good but I have noticed a change.

I like Hager as their boards are good with strong connections but the case is very thin and distorts very easily on a slight out of true wall (like most).

I'm currently preferring crabtree starbreaker (I love the push in busbar) or I use Wylex on a budget.

 

[Geordie Spark]

This is why Electrical Engineers (of which there are a few of us here) underwent a mechanical as well as electrical apprenticeship. I often have to replace MCB's because the numpty who installed them used the wrong screwdriver and the head is completely shot. Is it too much to ask for our fellow electricians to know the difference between a philips and a pozi head???
Regarding differences, my favourite is the difference between a bolt and a machine screw. Hardly any understand that one.

I agree with you, but WHY does there have to be confusion in the first place?

IF there was a standard type of screw / head then the "electrician" would not have to carry umpteen different screwdrivers. As things stand, we have the plus/minus things in Phillips and Pozi - two sizes of each - that's four screwdrivers, then there's the straight slotted type - again two screwdrivers - one large one small, two sizes of Phillips and two sizes of Pozi type fits all. Unless my arithmetic is wrong, that makes a total of TEN screwdrivers to cart about and probably lose on a job!!

It's absolute madness!!

As for the difference between the bolt and machine screw, I DO know the difference!! One of my jobs was making special-purpose bolts and screws for the M O D

But to get back on topic; I'm very sympathetic to our Friend the OP who is beating himself up over something that shouldn't have happened but unfortunately did and may or may not have been his fault (I prefer to think it wasn't / isn't his fault) and would suggest that he stops worrying about it because it really doesn't help anyone.

Leave it in the hands of the insurance people and let them stress over it - it's what they're paid to do!!

 

[Groundhog]

Thanks guys again - your comments help because I can assure you this is a crap thing to go through. Even though I have PIL and they are dealing with it you can't but help go over and over it endlessly which in the end helps no one. Plus of course as I have said I haven't been near this place for 2 years and I have done loads of jobs since then so I can't remember everything but I do know how I work and I know I tightened everything. But as You all know if I was the last electrican there then it's my problem. Thanks again - great help.

 

[EastAnglian]

Groundhog, some genuine advice, based on personal experience ...... if its keeping you awake at night and bugs you during the day don't discount professional help to get it into perspective. Your GP can help direct you.

Some years ago I wish somebody had told me this earlier than I discovered it for myself!

 

[EastAnglian]

I'm currently preferring crabtree starbreaker (I love the push in busbar) or I use Wylex on a budget.

100% agree, that has been my staple offering for a while.

However, I've been quite impressed with some English Electric boards which I got at a decent 'sale' price from Screwfix just to try them out. I installed one in my own extension first (the 'eat your own dog food' principle) and it was nice to work with.

 

[Knobhead]

You can beat yourself up about this forever and day. It’s your insurance company’s problem, not yours.

Put it behind you. But learn from it, these always someone trying to screw you.

For what it’s worth one of the subjects I had to study was test methods and reliability. Have a look on the net for the “Bathtub Theorem” and “Mean Time between Failure”.
Things do fail, it’s a fact of life!

 

[Guitarist]

Unfortunately, with our "every man for himself" and "get out clause" mentality which now pervades in British society, one can feel very alone and isolated when things go wrong. As Tony quite rightly says, things do fail, and we are feeling more and more impotent nowadays with quality taking a nose-dive in favour of profitability for Companies. I only use Crabtree Starbreaker or Wylex boards, and I DO torque the screws, but I realise that even with all the precautions in the world, the situation you're in could be any one of us, but for the grace of God.
Hope it gets sorted out soon mate, so you can put it behind you and move on.

 

[Knobhead]

It’s fine using a torque driver. But do you really know how to use it?

To be done correctly the turning action should be continuous until the set point is reached. No rechecking as it will over torque the connection or bolt. Each time a torqued component is checked it will cause a shock effect which results in over torque.

I found this out after fitting a vibrating motor, the holding down bolts sheared. We had gone around each bolt to make sure, big mistake! The failure was spectacular to say the least. If you have multiple fixings, run them to ½ torque, follow this with full torque in one go.

 

[Guitarist]

I did type a long reply, but as seems to be the case these days, the forum told me that the message was too short and deleted it..... Given up now.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Unfortunately, with our "every man for himself" and "get out clause" mentality which now pervades in British society, one can feel very alone and isolated when things go wrong. As Tony quite rightly says, things do fail, and we are feeling more and more impotent nowadays with quality taking a nose-dive in favour of profitability for Companies. I only use Crabtree Starbreaker or Wylex boards, and I DO torque the screws, but I realise that even with all the precautions in the world, the situation you're in could be any one of us, but for the grace of God.
Hope it gets sorted out soon mate, so you can put it behind you and move on.

I'm pleased it's not just me !!

 

[Geordie Spark]

It’s fine using a torque driver. But do you really know how to use it?

To be done correctly the turning action should be continuous until the set point is reached. No rechecking as it will over torque the connection or bolt. Each time a torqued component is checked it will cause a shock effect which results in over torque.

I found this out after fitting a vibrating motor, the holding down bolts sheared. We had gone around each bolt to make sure, big mistake! The failure was spectacular to say the least. If you have multiple fixings, run them to ½ torque, follow this with full torque in one go.

Expect to receive a PM from Tidyboiler very soon ............

 

[Megavolt]

I would of told them to jog on with this as I only give a 12 months warranty. And gone from there they was properly just testing waters with you to see if they could get a fall guy. I mean where will it stop at what point are you not responsible for it then. As long as you have a cert from when you did it.

 

[Knobhead]

Expect to receive a PM from Tidyboiler very soon ............

OK we're in the gutter again!

 

[Geordie Spark]

OK we're in the gutter again!

NOT "again" ...... "still"

 

[tidyboiler]

Expect to receive a PM from Tidyboiler very soon ............

Sent............................:drool5:
:wink_smile:

 

[Silly Sausage]

I've commented on this before, when are Geordie & Tidy going to be given their own private section!

I'm sick of my milk curdling in the fridge!

 

[Geordie Spark]

I've commented on this before, when are Geordie & Tidy going to be given their own private section!

I'm sick of my milk curdling in the fridge!

Aye, aah knaa what ye mean hinny .............. it's enough t' spyen a young coo.

Cushie Butterfield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Silly Sausage]

Aye, aah knaa what ye mean hinny .............. it's enough t' spyen a young coo.

Cushie Butterfield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm going to have to save that for later!
My head's fried at the moment.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I'm going to have to save that for later!
My head's fried at the moment.

Ye mean yer heid's puggled??

 

[vjsmarwick]

One of the worst I have seen is a buzz bar melted and glowing red because one of the mcb's had been added and had not been fitted correctly to the buzz bar it still had passed tests but later had begun to over heat because it was not tight. Luckily nothing that couldn't be fixed but hope everything works out for you

 

[dan86]

what the hell is a buzz bar?!