Consumer unit fire - advice please

[richy3333]

what the hell is a buzz bar?!

A buzzing busbar?

 

[dan86]

very apt

 

[Guitarist]

what the hell is a buzz bar?!

I'm always amazed at how many people think that it's actually called that.

 

[Geordie Spark]

what the hell is a buzz bar?!

Where bees go for a quiet drink after work?

 

[dan86]

Where bees go for a quiet drink after work?

that's the kind of reply of expect from specs!

 

[Groundhog]

Hi all - just wanted to update you on this. Quick recap as this thread has gone on a bit - thanks for your responses btw. Fire in protec consumer unit -I had fitted the CU 5 years ago and returned 2 years ago to do some extra work. householder had never had any problems with anything - not a flicker. Cause of fire was loose neutral - extensive smoke damage to property as fire brigade could not gain access. Basically I am liable. Even though I know I tightened it - why wouldn't I - and householder dabbles a bit in electrics plus has been having property renovated blah blah - because I was last one there and I supplied the CU - buck stops with me. Thank God I have PLI but I am gutted and it has been a horrible experience which came at a really bad time in my life. Only saving grace no one was hurt. So I can't say I have learnt by it as I genuinely believe when I left that house 2 years ago all was fine. But short of HH admitting someone else has been there or he has done something I'm screwed!!! So thanks again for all your opinions and I really hope you are all spared this experience as it was grim and will stay with me for a long time. Thanks all.

 

[Engineer54]

No way would i accept that decission, that just smacks of pointing the finger at the easiest target to me!!

 

[decolad69]

No way would i accept that decission, that just smacks of pointing the finger at the easiest target to me!!

I totally agree, I would fight it all the way - they need to prove that no work has been done on the CU since you left it. Also, we know the build quality of that product ......

In short, they must provide the evidence that you are to blame, if they can't then tough.

Decolad69

 

[telectrix]

agreed.tooth and nail. pass it to your insurers but don't admit any liability. you pay the premiums so let them fight it.

 

[Groundhog]

Yes my insurers are dealing with it. I haven't admitted liability but the forensic report has identified a loose neutral. As to when and how this happened we don't know but without evidence to the contrary it seems they go on balance of probability. My insurers have been very good and these things happen so I'm told. I am gutted but because if everything else that is going on at the moment - illness - I'm leaving it to the insurers to fight it out. Thanks for your input again.

 

[decolad69]

Hope all works out for you.

Regards,

Decolad69

 

[SKY]

Feel for you mate but please find the strength to fight - we are all now working with parts that just about meet the British Standard due to cost cutting across the whole sector.

I installed a customer supplied metal faced socket recently that was from a well known outlet. I fitted it perfectly all bare copper was showing 20mm as per instructions and all connections were correctly tightened - they plugged their outside blow up swimming pool heater/filter in to it (2kw) and the socket fried inside and the plug was welded into the socket.

RCD tripped and would not go back on again so I got the call because I only fitted it a few weeks earlier!!!
Customer was saying that I allowed her to overload the socket!!!!!! WTF - SHE SUPPLIED IT and it took me about 30 minutes to show/explain to her the swimming pool pulls 8.7 Amp and the socket is rated at @ 13AMP.

Anyhow - still awaiting payment and I have taken many pictures of the socket!!

 

[telectrix]

cheapo socket. customer supplied. tell her to take it back to wher eshe bought it.

 

[Guest111]

Hang on a minute was this the main incoming neutral? if so has the meter been changed? you need to find out as We had a meter change done recently and the guy checked the tails in cu when he'd finished as there have been "issues" resulting from tails loosening after a meter change.

 

[Groundhog]

Phil - it was the neutral link from the main switch of the CU to the neutral connection bar. Then insurers will look into a possible change of meter but I am certainly not aware this has occurred.
Sky - thanks for your comment and I agree totally with what you say - the standards of someof the kit is dreadful. As I have said I am not admitting liability but in the absence of any evidence for he contrary I think my insurers will be left with a hefty bill. As I say I am gutted but I just have to accept it.

 

[diditrain]

I have recently been to a very close fire in a consumer unit. The live tail was loose in the main switch, molten particles had blown through the base of the consumer unit, cables welded together, service fuse had ruptured.

 

[Marvo]

I'm still interested why you would be considered liable two years down the line from your last visit and 5 years after the installation. Surely if the wire was loose when you left the CU the damage would have occurred shortly afterward. The fact it took 2 years to overheat to the point of fire means that something changed between the time you were there and the time of the fire.
I'm not liking the sound of the situation at all. I can see things are going to get complicated, don't get me wrong I feel for you as a person because you're obviously a conscientious tradesman and genuinely concerned about your work quality and your customers but unfortunately this will work against you in this kind of scenario and could make you a soft target.

My advice is to get legal assistance and fight this independently of your insurance company. If your insurance company pays out the damage then don't be surprised if you also get pursued personally for the excess on the payment plus maybe even personal damages such as discomfort and distress by the homeowner. Can't you scheme provider or union provide you with legal assistance. Maybe one of your insurance policies entitles you to legal fees. It would be worth investigating because I fear you're going to get hung out to dry on this one.

 

[ayjay]

groundhog ,you worry far too much mate chill out its no big deal
quite a few db,s melt its par for the course
it normally stinks of rotten fish

 

[LeckyBill]

groundhog ,you worry far too much mate chill out its no big deal
quite a few db,s melt its par for the course
it normally stinks of rotten fish

g8 maybe for you m8

 

[Groundhog]

Marvo - the forensic study has indicated the neutral bar was not screwed home fully and due to the tightness of the fit and the light load onthe unit any problems can sometimes take 2 years to come to light. According to the insurance company we as electricians are liable for upto 6 years following any electrical work which is why PLI is so important. My insurance company have been excellent and they are arguing over how much they will pay.
Ayjay - I wasnt a worrier until this happened!
anyway guys that's it for now. Thanks again.

 

[FAA Greenie]

That stinks of scapegoat turd to me.

As said previously, someone has been tinkering since the event.

Perhaps if you had not provided a cert, not provided an address or any BC notification or even bothered to enrol in a scheme this would never have happened.......

In other words, the cowboys out there would never have copped for this one, regardless of how strong, or in this case, feeble the evidence was...

 

[ayjay]

what the heck is the code for"g8 maybe for m8"
-------------------
i dare say its some kind of text talk some kind of slang
"naw wot i mean innitt
i na all it is abatt lectriccs dan i
i,ss de man aint it me zs and me xi is in me toolbox innit ect

 

[Sharpend]

Groundhog, whilst I would suggest as others have said to fight it all the way, I know from an alternate experience that the mental strain can be draining and any other additional stresses seem to make it all far too much too handle, but I look back now and believe that had I of found the strength from somewhere I may well not be in the position that I am today. Unfortunately it is now too late for me so I will have to live with the consequences of my inaction at the time.
However it does make you wonder why the insurance backed scheme is for six years? If forensics managed too determine cause did they come across any finger prints in the process? Long shot but you never know, as it is the insurance company will agree a settlement that will not be of any comfort to you or the homeowner but at least the insurance company will sleep well.

My advice is too take a step back and have an INDEPENDANT review done. A new fresh overview may throw something else into the cooking pot.

 

[Engineer54]

the forensic study has indicated the neutral bar was not screwed home fully and due to the tightness of the fit and the light load onthe unit any problems can sometimes take 2 years to come to light.

Sorry but that so called forensic study is somewhat floored!! How does a high resistance connection that's drawing enough current to cause the ignition of fire to surrounding combustible material, go unnoticed for 2 years??

If nothing else the heat emitted would have badly distorted the CU's plastic casing, let alone be the source of a vile and acrid smell, for a good amount of those alleged 2 years that this fault had been smouldering away!!

 

[Guest111]

Sorry but that so called forensic study is somewhat floored!! How does a high resistance connection that's drawing enough current to cause the ignition of fire to surrounding combustible material, go unnoticed for 2 years??

If nothing else the heat emitted would have badly distorted the CU's plastic casing, let alone be the source of a vile and acrid smell, for a good amount of those alleged 2 years that this fault had been smouldering away!!

Yes I agree,a few years ago a woman rang me as she'd had a strange smell in her home for about a fortnight,it was described as something like tcp she'd looked all over and couldn't find a cause and was going down the plumbing or electrics route.I offered to pop round straight away and found the tails were a bit loose with some charring of the plastic around the main isolator,the house had been rewired a couple of years earlier,but they had recently had a meter change so maybe thats what had loosened the tails.Maybe it would be an idea to find some way of clipping the tails as they exit the cu to prevent this happening.