EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news"

[telectrix]

An interesting development.

MPs 'considering using majority' to keep UK in single market


see here. MPs 'considering using majority' to keep UK in single market - BBC News

just had a skim through that. appears that when the electorate vote for out, the government will then elect to stay in the single market, thus scuppering the desires of the majority who vote out mainly to abolish things that the gov. will then vote to retain. that's democracy for you.

 

[Octopus]

just had a skim through that. appears that when the electorate vote for out, the government will then elect to stay in the single market, thus scuppering the desires of the majority who vote out mainly to abolish things that the gov. will then vote to retain. that's democracy for you.

And if they did that my crystal ball sees a UKIP majority in 2020 - which is how the UK population would "reward" the foolish MP's by kicking them out.

 

[andyb]

The vote is for in or out of the EU, the Vote Leave people have not said what their post referendum vision for the UK is.
They've mentioned various models ie the Norwegian model, the Canadian model even the Albanian mode ffs, and others. They've talked about being totally out of the free market and a sort of part in part out version.
Given that, who do you think should decide if not our democratically elected government?

 

[telectrix]

it's not that. it's the lies and spin. if the vote is for out, then that should mean out. that includes out of the single market which is crippling us and scrapping contributions to the EU, controlling migration from the EU,and our democratically inepted government making UK laws for the UK. from what he says, the hyenas will probably votre to negate all the advantages of leaving will bring. the phrase "sour grapes" comes to mind.

 

[andyb]

it's not that. it's the lies and spin. if the vote is for out, then that should mean out. that includes out of the single market which is crippling us and scrapping contributions to the EU, controlling migration from the EU,and our democratically inepted government making UK laws for the UK. from what he says, the hyenas will probably votre to negate all the advantages of leaving will bring. the phrase "sour grapes" comes to mind.

Completely 100% out is one end of a very wide spectrum Tel. I think you're correct in that what most people voting out want that. But not all and certainly not the leaders of vote leave.
Maybe another referendum is called for.

One way to avoid the mess would be to vote remain.:smiley2:

 

[UNG]

The EU is a really desperate organisation that is continually creating laws or if you prefer directives to perpetuate their ability to levy fees or fines. We keep hearing of this magical veto that can prevent the EU from going against us and our interests yet this seems to have limited effect when the EU commission are involved. Even now they have delayed legislation that will affect the UK because they don't want it to affect the referendum vote if we remain are we going to be swamped with a load of new laws or directives and more demands for money to prop the EU up

I have often tried to understand how the EU thought it could change nature with straight cucumbers and bananas that had a specified bend radius and then they were considering monitoring backgroud ethylene levels in the atmosphere and taxing fruit ripeners and other users of ethylene if the levels increased when there are other variables as to why ethylene levels may increase. So much of how the EU affects us directly and indirectly is kept under the radar to stop us knowing to much

Getting a little bit fed up with the referendum campaigns to date going round in circles with the remain camp stating we are better in because it is a known quantity and to leave would be catastrophic and the leave campaign seem unable to put forward a robust economic argument to leave that isn't knocked down. While we know what we have with the EU now if we remain in what can we expect of the EU in the next 12 months, 5 years, 10 years in the ever growing spiral of countries joining who can't afford the subs and are looking for a bailout to support their under performing economies it can only cost us more and / or reduce any grants and subsidies that UK gets now

The EU "experiment" has IMO run it's course and has proved that politics and corruption are good partners for an elite few

 

[Octopus]

Completely 100% out is one end of a very wide spectrum Tel. I think you're correct in that what most people voting out want that. But not all and certainly not the leaders of vote leave.
Maybe another referendum is called for.

One way to avoid the mess would be to vote remain.:smiley2:

And commit the UK to the fraud and mess and lack of democracy called the EU - no thanks.

If the vote was to reinstall the aims and goals of the EEC and remove the Euro I would vote remain without ANY hesitation.... but to continue with the current situation and force ALL new countries that enter the EU to also adopt the Euro is pure madness. Most of the Countries who have joined the EU since 1990 should NOT be in the Euro.

 

[sparksburnout]

Of course the OUT campaigners cannot put forward a cast-iron plan of exactly how it will be once we are out, because it is blindingly obvious that we cannot know until we do it. I cannot understand how people expect them to do so. What they can do is use the evidence that is before us to point to all the problems that the EU is now causing us and will continue to do so with an increasingly detrimental effect. The negative effects and aspects do not actually seem to be disputed amongst most of the people I have talked to, rather some of them just have the attitude of "oooooohh we can't risk it better the devil you know" and so on. Well IMO it's a good job we didn't have that attitude 50 odd years ago! I for one would rather take a brave step forward and have the courage of my convictions, I am totally convinced that we would be able to continue to trade with the EU but also be able to make other trading relationships with the rest of the world, a lot of which has far better growth than the EU does, as well as freeing up vast sums of cash to put right all the cuts that have had to be made to the EU bill for years. The EU is descending into madness, we should have the belief in ourselves to leave it behind and strive for something better, because I for one think we deserve not to be run and dictated to by the likes of Junkers and Co. Why, when I picture in my mind these EU commissioners, do I get an image of Sepp Blatter?? Say no more......

 

[Midwest]

Well my little vote has gone into the envelope and into the post-box. :wink_smile::44::smug:

 

[andyb]

Of course the OUT campaigners cannot put forward a cast-iron plan of exactly how it will be once we are out, because it is blindingly obvious that we cannot know until we do it. I cannot understand how people expect them to do so. What they can do is use the evidence that is before us to point to all the problems that the EU is now causing us and will continue to do so with an increasingly detrimental effect. The negative effects and aspects do not actually seem to be disputed amongst most of the people I have talked to, rather some of them just have the attitude of "oooooohh we can't risk it better the devil you know" and so on. Well IMO it's a good job we didn't have that attitude 50 odd years ago! I for one would rather take a brave step forward and have the courage of my convictions, I am totally convinced that we would be able to continue to trade with the EU but also be able to make other trading relationships with the rest of the world, a lot of which has far better growth than the EU does, as well as freeing up vast sums of cash to put right all the cuts that have had to be made to the EU bill for years. The EU is descending into madness, we should have the belief in ourselves to leave it behind and strive for something better, because I for one think we deserve not to be run and dictated to by the likes of Junkers and Co. Why, when I picture in my mind these EU commissioners, do I get an image of Sepp Blatter?? Say no more......

What nonsense, from the first word to the last.

Why cant vote leave tell us what they see as our relationship with the EU will be after a vote to leave? They must have at least a semblance of an idea as to what they want, and if they say they haven't then any one who believes them is a mug. I'm not asking how it will all pan out in the long run, (I think I know the answer to that) but merely an idea of what we replace membership with.

I certainly do not see the negative effects the same as you seem to, what there are, are clearly outweighed by the benefits.

You may be correct about our attitude 50 years ago but you'll have to remind me exactly happened in the mid sixty's to underpin that boast.

No one has ever said that we will not be able to trade with the EU after exit and we already do a lot of trade with the rest of the world.

I have immense belief in ourselves to prosper in and out of the EU, that's not the question. It's whether we will be better off in or out.

As to why you get an image of Sepp Blatter when you picture an EU commissioner, that might go along way to describing your lack of grasp or reality.

 

[andyb]

Well my little vote has gone into the envelope and into the post-box. :wink_smile::44::smug:

Which side did you come down on MW?

(It's a big vote BTW)

 

[sparksburnout]

What nonsense, from the first word to the last.

Why cant vote leave tell us what they see as our relationship with the EU will be after a vote to leave? They must have at least a semblance of an idea as to what they want, and if they say they haven't then any one who believes them is a mug. I'm not asking how it will all pan out in the long run, (I think I know the answer to that) but merely an idea of what we replace membership with.

I certainly do not see the negative effects the same as you seem to, what there are, are clearly outweighed by the benefits.

You may be correct about our attitude 50 years ago but you'll have to remind me exactly happened in the mid sixty's to underpin that boast.

No one has ever said that we will not be able to trade with the EU after exit and we already do a lot of trade with the rest of the world.

I have immense belief in ourselves to prosper in and out of the EU, that's not the question. It's whether we will be better off in or out.

As to why you get an image of Sepp Blatter when you picture an EU commissioner, that might go along way to describing your lack of grasp or reality.

I sometimes wonder what planet some people are on, I really do. If you still cannot see them after all the comments and evidence that has been put forward to date, then I guess you never will.

 

[Darkwood]

The EU is a massively corrupt empire hence it couldn't give a audit clean bill of health to at least 100billion, we are not talking a few million here, If my tax is to go into the EU they need to be held accountable but guess what, they are legally protected and you cannot remove them from power. Take a look at this link about the underhand shady goings on within the EU, a study into the level of corruption believed to be throughout the EU - its gobsmacking and even if the figure were a little high then still we are talking of a system that is corrupt to its core.. ever wondered why massive UK based contracts end up going to EU members rathers than our own workforce, ever wonder why the government cannot give any credible answers well have a gander at this recent study... Corruption costs EU ?up to ?990 billion a year? ? POLITICO

 

[andyb]

The EU is a massively corrupt empire hence it couldn't give a audit clean bill of health to at least 100billion, we are not talking a few million here, If my tax is to go into the EU they need to be held accountable but guess what, they are legally protected and you cannot remove them from power. Take a look at this link about the underhand shady goings on within the EU, a study into the level of corruption believed to be throughout the EU - its gobsmacking and even if the figure were a little high then still we are talking of a system that is corrupt to its core.. ever wondered why massive UK based contracts end up going to EU members rathers than our own workforce, ever wonder why the government cannot give any credible answers well have a gander at this recent study... Corruption costs EU ?up to ?990 billion a year? ? POLITICO

You're mixing two things up there DW.
The piece by Politico is about corruption within the EU not by the EU. It was commissioned by the EU. There is corruption everywhere, try looking at the US. There is corruption in this country, not only within the UK but the bribing that goes on around the world by British companies.

The accounts not being signed of are an old myth. The last fully audited accounts (2013) were passed correct for the seventh year in a row, accounting for every euro spent.

 

[andyb]

I sometimes wonder what planet some people are on, I really do. If you still cannot see them after all the comments and evidence that has been put forward to date, then I guess you never will.

What I'm saying Sparks is that I don't see what you perceive as the negatives in the same light as you.

 

[Darkwood]

You're mixing two things up there DW.
The piece by Politico is about corruption within the EU not by the EU. It was commissioned by the EU. There is corruption everywhere, try looking at the US. There is corruption in this country, not only within the UK but the bribing that goes on around the world by British companies.

The accounts not being signed of are an old myth. The last fully audited accounts (2013) were passed correct for the seventh year in a row, accounting for every euro spent.

I know it 2 seperate issues, I tried making it clear I was talking 2 points but was showing the level of corruption from both sides of the coin, the EU itself cannot balance its books to the tune of 100billion and it basically is sitting back and doing little to stop the indepth level of curruption amongst it members. In leaving we are not throwing money at a system that cannot account for itself and also we raise a barrier and reduce the likelyhood of said corruption rife throughout the EU effecting us direct. You are right we have it in the UK too but it will be easier to control or stop if we get back all the powers that are currently held by brussels and stopping us from dealing with it.

 

[silverfox1]

[h=2]Oliver Cromwell - Dissolution of the Long Parliament 1653[/h] [h=3]Dissolution of the Long Parliament by Oliver Cromwell given to the House of Commons, 20 April 1653.[/h] Speech


It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.


Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?


Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turn'd the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.

In the name of God, go!

Oliver Cromwell - April 20, 1653


Some things never change do they.

 

[Midwest]

Which side did you come down on MW?

(It's a big vote BTW)

Now that would be telling, and in the perquisite of the importance of encouraging people to vote, I ain't gonna tell ya, but I could be persuaded. :flowers:

 

[sparksburnout]

Now that would be telling, and in the perquisite of the importance of encouraging people to vote, I ain't gonna tell ya, but I could be persuaded. :flowers:

As a democratic comment, I think it is pretty obvious how MW has voted. I am on holiday on the 23rd, so I have already cancelled him out..........

 

[Midwest]

As a democratic comment, I think it is pretty obvious how MW has voted. I am on holiday on the 23rd, so I have already cancelled him out..........

Oh no I cancelled you out :yesnod: