Goodbye 2391

[pirhead]

Guys heres some news that will give a lot of people a sigh of releif the 2391 as we know it will be abolished by december 2011!!!! Yeah thats right no more 2391, The qualification is going to broken down into three seperate units 1. Initial verification 2. Periodic Inspection 3. Design and Testing Its all part of the new QCF for electricians does anybody know what QCF means :rockon2:

 

[malcolmsanford]

Unfortunately Glenn Speed rarely in my experience equates to quality and in today's market quality rarely rates to profit.

I'm sure there are still contracts where quality over rides speed, but I bet you they are a minority.

As I've said I feel sorry for you lads just entering the industry, who genuinely still believe in doing quality work, IMO it as never been in such a poor state, not only for standards, but how we are now looked upon.

I'm sure you guys get fed up with some of us old'uns battering on about "the good old days, as some of them were not so good, unfortunately over the years I've seen the bottom line of doing a good job, to now being do a cheap job.

It is certainly the sign of a changing world, where in today's industry you would not have time to do a boiler house say in MICC and dress and bank perhaps 17 individual cables around the walls to drop off at equipment. It was pleasure for someone to come in and say that looks nice, rather than that took too long.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Back to the topic....I just hope that this new course/s are equal to what we have now (i doubt it)...your gonna end up with guys goin round with this cert n that cert but not really nowin owt....inspection and testing int just about looking at a set of test results and just coppying em down like a robot....its about how to interpret those results/values (what they mean, weaknesses etc) and just because summat complies now (such as an IR test) you should be able to look at a low(ish) reading and say to a client "yeah its ok but its on its way out" just as an example.............

 

[Guest123]

Back to the topic....I just hope that this new course/s are equal to what we have now

We only need look at the AM2 to find the answer to that mate, and in a way it all seems relevant to the current situation with the SMA's.


I just wonder how much (if any) influence the 'big 8' have over the powers that be that decide on the path training to be a spark follows.

 

[solarkid]

I have just enrolled on to do the 2392 since the college wont let you go straight on to the 2391 straight away ... After reading through threads on these forums .... what is the best route to take ???

Will the 2392 and 2391 have a end date where its not valid any longer ??
Can you transfer these certs over to the new certs ??

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Back to the topic....I just hope that this new course/s are equal to what we have now

We only need look at the AM2 to find the answer to that mate, and in a way it all seems relevant to the current situation with the SMA's.


I just wonder how much (if any) influence the 'big 8' have over the powers that be that decide on the path training to be a spark follows.

The thing is Lenny, training to be a spark has always looked more confusing to me than some other trades....Its "you need this course..that course" etc with the finance this involves...so you can see that those with a vested interest are bound to cluster around ready to pluck cash from the tree of sparks but as far as these courses are concerned.....look lads, This question came up a while ago about low pass rates etc for the 2391 and the IET looked at it then with 2 options
(i) "dumb down" the course to artificially create better pass rates (wrong in my opinion) and potentially dangerous...
(ii) create an "intermediate" course as an introduction to inspection and testing (2392) which can then be used as a springboard to attaining the 2391 (the right way in my opinion) ensuring competency and safety........
We have something that works lads....if you dont put the effort in and/or dont understand about inspection and testing then you wont pass and so will not be in a position to pose either a risk to yourself or other people..........

 

[brucelee]

I have just enrolled on to do the 2392 since the college wont let you go straight on to the 2391 straight away ... After reading through threads on these forums .... what is the best route to take ???

Will the 2392 and 2391 have a end date where its not valid any longer ??
Can you transfer these certs over to the new certs ??

Hi mate
the 2391-10 and 20 last registration is 31 december i think mate its all on C&G website but they will always be valid 2391 is a life long qualification well thats what i was led to believe 2391-10 cant be transfered over so if you want the 2391-20 do it before december or wait and do the whole set of new quals as for the 2392 not sure whats happening to that mate

 

[La Poste]

Well I'm still waiting for the results of my theory (sat it late July) and then have to do my practical.
I hope I pass otherwise I might not be able to sit it again, the exams only I mean.
I might have to pay a load of money for a load of new courses which means I might just give up on the whole idea.

 

[La Poste]

But then I still can't help thinking that electricity is going to be massively important to this country in the future once the gas gets too expensive.

I still think this is a really good trade but I just can't accept the amount of money grabbers leeching off the working spark, it's obscene but we don't seem to be able to do anything about it.

 

[La Poste]

Actually thinking about it I am fairly certain City and Guilds have a floating pass mark which they adjust themselves to keep the pass rate at their own pre-determined level IE not have too many people pass.

If this is the case then I really do smell a rat.

 

[bluestar]

not often i feel the need to comment ,
but the 2391 is not that hard to pass if you read the link posted on this forum to the c&g review of past papers you will find it quite interesting.
the average pass mark is around 95
you have 60 from the multi choice and 90 from the question side, not to difficult to gain say 45-50 on the multi 50-60 on the written and you have a pass
many people lose marks from terminology and not reading the questions properly
you only really need the gn 3 read understand it simplesss!!!
the pass rate is low because there are a lot of dumb sparks out there you only have to look at some of the questions asked on here
so we come back to lets dumb down the exams so the dummies can pass

 

[IQ Electrical]

I'm absolutely against any dumbing down, it's happened enough in our industry but I can promise you there is no multi choice in the 2391-10 exam...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

not often i feel the need to comment ,
but the 2391 is not that hard to pass if you read the link posted on this forum to the c&g review of past papers you will find it quite interesting.
the average pass mark is around 95
you have 60 from the multi choice and 90 from the question side, not to difficult to gain say 45-50 on the multi 50-60 on the written and you have a pass
many people lose marks from terminology and not reading the questions properly
you only really need the gn 3 read understand it simplesss!!!
the pass rate is low because there are a lot of dumb sparks out there you only have to look at some of the questions asked on here
so we come back to lets dumb down the exams so the dummies can pass

But dont forget: some people do better in exams than others mainly because their exam tecnique requires work and thats all. It doesn`t meen they dont know their stuff....far from it and i think it would be arrogent and grossly unfair to point a judgemental finger at those who dont cope very well under exam conditions. Look, those who tend to buckle in exams should recieve help and guidance that will steady them when they get into that room. I was lucky in that i have a mother who is an english graduate and has passed loads of exams and helped loads of people prepare for them too....she doesn`t know the first thing about electrical installations, testing or inspecting but.....she does know how to aproach an exam with more than a fair chance of passing. Now then, would i have passed without her guidance and persistence with me (telling me to get into GN3 when i didn`t feel like it) etc..? I will never know but the help i recieved was invaluable. I cant (and wont) come on here and decry others because they wobble in exams.....it doesn`t necessarily mean they are incompetent..........:aureola:

 

[bluestar]

ok so the first half is 20 questions each worth three marks
but read the report and people are still unable to state the correct paper work for initial verification or a periodic inspection after 10 weeks of study if they cant do that then lol
and glennspark i never used the word incompetent just dumb
and before anyone asks my quals are
236 pt1
236 pt2
232 pt 3 stepping stone to onc
onc electrical /electronic engineering
2391

and these are from the days when they were harder to pass rather than the nvqs of today
i`ll be honest im a contracting spark and the standard of electricians is on the decline i see this at most firms i go to i think its down todays youngsters you cant tell them anything and they spend more time on there phones than learning i myself have had 2 apprentices the last one is just coming out his time and fingers crossed he will be ok so before you all flame me i`ve seen it all perhaps i will tell you about the 2 young sparks
connecting new colours to old and causing £2000 worth of damage!!!

 

[solarkid]

I thought i would tell everybody whats going on with the 2392 and 2391.

The 2392 is being replaced with the 2394
The 2391 is being replaced with the 2395
The 2391-20 is being replaced by the 2396

The 2392 and 2391 will be vaild for the next five years after closing date, which at the present moment is being extended from what is stated on there PDF due to the have not finalized whats going in to the certs ...

The new certs will have to be re taken every so many years, the decision on the amount of years is either 3 or 5 years.

I spoke to my local college and then city guilds to confirm the above .... but the new certs are a long way off because the guilds told me they were extending the 2392 and 2391 into next year..

Hope this helps

 

[madmac]

Fu*&ing scam!!!!