No Paperwork For New Consumer Unit Installation

[Octopus]

Advertising as a kitchen and bathroom fitter - enough said!

EDIT: And on a previous "look up" they claimed to be Elecsa members - so they can't claim no knowledge of building regs and Part P.

 

[Midwest]

To clear this up; I PM'ed website to Murdoch a while ago so he could check it out for me!
I will not publicly name installer until I know beyond doubt that he has done something illegal.
Whilst I don't like the price charged to my mother, I now know that is his standard charge rather than an opportunist one.
I'm still a little unclear about where they stand with this 'certificate' as the comments vary wildly!

Trimglafix, I would just like to add a word of caution here. The guys are right about the quality of workmanship of the installation and the acceptability & correctness of the EIC. However, I could guarantee if any electrician on this forum posted pictures of his/her work, with an EIC, it would be subject to scrutiny (no offence guys). This one is certainly way below the bottom of the pile though. In a sense, we are only telling you what you want to hear.
It would seem to me, as I said before, is the only way you can check the work, and improve the standard of the EIC, is to pay for another electrician to carry an inspection and issue you an electrical installation condition report (EICR). I don't see this installer being capable of doing such. As regards notification to the LBC, ultimately that is the responsibility of the home owner. This process would normally be agreed at the quotation time, which if I remember you mother didn't get and it seems this installer is not in a scheme. You should ask him if he is going to notify the LBC. You could speak to your LBC, but most require prior notification before the work starts. They may then say you would have to pay for a regularisation application (post completion of work certificate), my LBC charges £618 for that process.

Armed with the information you've gathered here, I would seek advice from a solicitor or CAB on whether anything 'illegal' has been done.

 

[stevethesparks]

The first thing that got my attention on the sheet was the high Zs calculation of the cooker circuit compared to the others, that doesn't add up.

 

[SJD]

The first thing that got my attention on the sheet was the high Zs calculation of the cooker circuit compared to the others, that doesn't add up.

The CU seems to be in the pantry off the kitchen, so unless the oven is installed down the bottom of the garden, it seems more than a bit suspicious to have such a value. If you are going to make up all the results, you would think you'd put in realistic guesses, ... unless of course you've no idea what is realistic!

 

[shanky887614]

The CU seems to be in the pantry off the kitchen, so unless the oven is installed down the bottom of the garden, it seems more than a bit suspicious to have such a value. If you are going to make up all the results, you would think you'd put in realistic guesses, ... unless of course you've no idea what is realistic!

in the onsite guide.


resistance of copper

2.5mm is 19.51 (mohms) per m
6mm (2.5 earth) is 10.39 (mohms) per m


anyway it seems strange how high the value is for the cooker when it is only feeding a radial



the 2.5 works out around 33m give or take

the 6mm on the other hand works out at 96m

hmm somethings wrong here if the fuseboard is in the pantry

 

[Octopus]

High Zs on the cooker circuit could easily be the reading from a knackered CCU with socket!

 

[shanky887614]

High Zs on the cooker circuit could easily be the reading from a knackered CCU with socket!

only talking about the r1+r2 murdoch

 

[andyb]

sorry guys going to be blunt

Type denise and sergio electrician into Google.

I have no further comments on this. OP get a refund.

I can't find anything. Is it one person?

 

[Octopus]

only talking about the r1+r2 murdoch

And yes yes a knackered socket can have this affect too

 

[SJD]

And yes yes a knackered socket can have this affect too

Yes, but if you measured this high at the socket, you'd suspect a problem and perhaps test at the terminals behind the faceplate? If you just wrote down the high value without questioning it, likely as not you didn't understand what you were measuring?

 

[markc123]

I can't find anything. Is it one person?

Nah husband and wife team ... says Denise and Sergio on the OP's receipt, and without being stereotypical i can't see there being many Denise and Sergio electrical duets around.

Basically they're Electrical Trainee's gone self employed straight away ... if it's the same people, operating in and around the Darby area? OP doesn't have a location so wouldn't know for certain.

 

[andyb]

Yes, but if you measured this high at the socket, you'd suspect a problem and perhaps test at the terminals behind the faceplate? If you just wrote down the high value without questioning it, likely as not you didn't understand what you were measuring?

The Zs should of been 1.1 or less (80% rule)
This should of been investigated and certainly been noted on the certificate.
The only comments I can see are regarding old colour wiring and the fact that Zs was calculated, can't think why you need to calculate Zs for a circuit containing sockets.
There is an appendix relating to high Zs readings at the back of the regs.

 

[markc123]

The Zs should of been 1.1 or less (80% rule)
This should of been investigated and certainly been noted on the certificate.
The only comments I can see are regarding old colour wiring and the fact that Zs was calculated, can't think why you need to calculate Zs for a circuit containing sockets.
There is an appendix relating to high Zs readings at the back of the regs.

That comes down to people been told - Zs by measurement is dangerous (i still laugh when i type that) apparently even apprentices going through their time are told this at colleges. Anyway, quite a lot of todays society will take this as gospel and not ask why. Therefore having probably know knowledge of even how to do a basic test such as Zs you come across certificates like this ... Zs by measurement.

And thats not even to mention it takes half the time to add up 2 readings as opposed to testing direct.

 

[markc123]

Trimglafix, I would just like to add a word of caution here. The guys are right about the quality of workmanship of the installation and the acceptability & correctness of the EIC. However, I could guarantee if any electrician on this forum posted pictures of his/her work, with an EIC, it would be subject to scrutiny (no offence guys). This one is certainly way below the bottom of the pile though.

I'm going to have disagree with you here to a certain extent mate.

If we all posted pictures of our work, then yes, it would get scrutinised. Poor workmanship isn't a crime unless it effects the safety of the installation. But yeah, i agree, work should be neat and tidy and some peoples workmanship will be better than others ect...

However, theres absolutley no excuse for getting an EIC as messed up as that (handwriting a-side) ... whoever has wrote that certificate literally has no clue of the certificate itself and which aspects relate to which parts of the installation.

Look we will all code things slightly different on an EICR, but to get an EIC as bad as that tells me that whoever has done that is incompetent when it comes to inspection and testing.

 

[andyb]

That comes down to people been told - Zs by measurement is dangerous (i still laugh when i type that) apparently even apprentices going through their time are told this at colleges. Anyway, quite a lot of todays society will take this as gospel and not ask why. Therefore having probably know knowledge of even how to do a basic test such as Zs you come across certificates like this ... Zs by measurement.

And thats not even to mention it takes half the time to add up 2 readings as opposed to testing direct.

Calculating Zs is perfectly acceptable Mark, I don't have a problem with it. It's just that where you have sockets you would normally just use your socket adapter on your meter and get a measured Zs.