Why do no employers pay the rate any more?

[Hardwired]

I don't know if this is just a Scotland specific problem but all the big domestic electrical firms either pay you below the SJIB rate or you work on a price system which amounts in some cases to you doing a full weeks work for £250. It's doing my head in and I'm thinking of quitting the trade. All the companies I have worked for in the last few years are vastly under paying their staff while putting massive amounts of pressure for results. Rant over. But my question is how can they be getting away with this?

 

[Octopus]

Sub contracting was 8 years old and too deeply established to abolish in 1997, somethings cannot be undone, changing the whole system would have caused chaos, silly posts itemising majorities in elections will not prove your ridiculously silly point.

Rollox.

My point about the elections is that Tony Blair had majorities to rail road pretty much anything through Parliament but he chose not to..............

If he had balls he would have but he was just a Tory with the wrong colour tie on.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

The electricians mate has always been a bit of an English thing ,we don't really have them in jock land
but as Essex boy says a couple of Sparks and a load of labourers do not make for a decent job at the end of the day.
we have big outfits up here that use a few Sparks and have loads of apprentices instead of mates
so it's nothing new tbh.
a mate of mine took a guy on who had been a spark for 30 years highly regarded in the big contracting end etc etc.
turns out he had the electrical know how of a first year laddie and the people skills of pol pot.
and this boy thought he was worth top dollar!
lads that are worth the money are seriously hard to come by IMO

1. I disagree, having worked on sites where the mates to sparks ratio was 70/30 and still a top job done. It depends on the foreman to be on top of things. Most of the jobs I was on were large commercial (schools/ hospitals/ theatre cinema/ student accommodation) and most of the installation did not require top sparks to install back boxes at the right height, pull cables in, put trunking up etc.

2. Having run a Limited Company, I can fully concur! However, I WAS one of those 'lads worth the money' as a mate, and people quickly realised that. I was given responsibility at an early stage, and I rose to it. I studied hard in my own time and took great pride in what I did. When I came to running a company and sourcing labour, I quickly realised that my approach to work was a bit 'old school' and not the norm.

I realise that reading this back, it sounds like I am blowing my own trumpet, so I want to add 'for the record' that I do not know it all and I really do wish I had the opportunity to learn the full spectrum of the industry, as there are HUGE gaps in my knowledge.

Peace.

 

[Guest77]

Rollox.

My point about the elections is that Tony Blair had majorities to rail road pretty much anything through Parliament but he chose not to..............

If he had balls he would have but he was just a Tory with the wrong colour tie on.

You talk complete bollox fair play, total bollox

 

[Guest77]

Thatcher started sub contracting but it is Tony Blairs fault for not stopping it 8 years later when it was established, another complete buffoon blaiming Blair for everything.

 

[Octopus]

You talk complete bollox fair play, total bollox

Why is it bollox.

Just because I'm right and you and not right.

We live with a Parliamentary system where the Government with the largest number of seats takes the lead - and they didn't

Why didn't they halt the sale of council houses?
Why didn't they start building council houses?

 

[Guest77]

Why is it bollox.

Just because I'm right and you and not right.

We live with a Parliamentary system where the Government with the largest number of seats takes the lead - and they didn't

Why didn't they halt the sale of council houses?
Why didn't they start building council houses?

You are not right, you think you are, you are wrong

 

[Guest77]

Why is it bollox.

Just because I'm right and you and not right.

We live with a Parliamentary system where the Government with the largest number of seats takes the lead - and they didn't

Why didn't they halt the sale of council houses?
Why didn't they start building council houses?

Were talking sub contracting.

 

[Leesparkykent]

......

 

[Guest77]

Why is it bollox.

Just because I'm right and you and not right.

We live with a Parliamentary system where the Government with the largest number of seats takes the lead - and they didn't

Why didn't they halt the sale of council houses?
Why didn't they start building council houses?

Not everything can be turned around, Blair cannot be blamed for sub contracting and the death of apprenticeships, ridiculous.

 

[Octopus]

Were talking sub contracting.

I wasn't.

I was pointing out that the last (beloved in your eyes) Labour Government, could have done pretty much what they wanted but didn't and yes this could have been to reverse loads of the Union legislation.

Its a bit like the handful of London tube drivers voting for a strike and bringing London to a halt. What a fxcking shambles. Sure unions are needed and votes should be democratic, but the vote should be a minimum of 75% of the membership and 68% for the action.

 

[frontier219]

Not everything can be turned around, Blair cannot be blamed for sub contracting and the death of apprenticeships, ridiculous.

I partially agree with this. Sub contracting no, no way.

The lack of apprenticeships however - he had 10 years in power - problem was, he decided that University was where everyone should be headed.

 

[ipf]

1. Nice work. :biggrin:

2. throws.

..has thrown...

 

[Guest77]

I partially agree with this. Sub contracting no, no way.

The lack of apprenticeships however - he had 10 years in power - problem was, he decided that University was where everyone should be headed.

When I was a spark in the mid eightees we had 40 pair on our firm, when the sub contracting go ahead was given within 5 years we had 5 guys on the books and dozens of subbies, the firm I worked for then employed subbies and didn't train apprentices anymore, blair is not to blame for that.

 

[frontier219]

When I was a spark in the mid eightees we had 40 pair on our firm, when the sub contracting go ahead was given within 5 years we had 5 guys on the books and dozens of subbies, the firm I worked for then employed subbies and didn't train apprentices anymore, blair is not to blame for that.

Not disagreeing, but he still could've done a lot more to encourage firms to take on Apprentices. He had the chance to give incentives to those firms.

 

[R G]

Sub contracting has been around a long time in the building industry as a whole , whats to blame is the influx of foreign labour that are working for half the rates we need to make a decent living and keep a family , I know of guys in other trades that have had to give up their trade and find another occupation or move elsewhere , this started back in the Blair days , and to my mind should have been capped , this along with the short course trainees the trade is hard hit , but this applies to most building trades as well , so you can see why UKIP is gaining popularity....