Why do no employers pay the rate any more?

[Hardwired]

I don't know if this is just a Scotland specific problem but all the big domestic electrical firms either pay you below the SJIB rate or you work on a price system which amounts in some cases to you doing a full weeks work for £250. It's doing my head in and I'm thinking of quitting the trade. All the companies I have worked for in the last few years are vastly under paying their staff while putting massive amounts of pressure for results. Rant over. But my question is how can they be getting away with this?

 

[VoltzElectrical]

..has thrown...

Oh yes. Now were talking!

 

[frontier219]

Sub contracting has been around a long time in the building industry as a whole , whats to blame is the influx of foreign labour that are working for half the rates we need to make a decent living and keep a family , I know of guys in other trades that have had to give up their trade and find another occupation or move elsewhere , this started back in the Blair days , and to my mind should have been capped , this along with the short course trainees the trade is hard hit , but this applies to most building trades as well , so you can see why UKIP is gaining popularity....

UKIP won't help. Not one little bit.

 

[R G]

UKIP won't help. Not one little bit.

Not saying they will , but thats what peoples feelings are on this ...

 

[Octopus]

the firm I worked for then employed subbies and didn't train apprentices anymore, blair is not to blame for that.

I doubt Tony Blair knew what an apprentice is/was. All he could see was the lines of graduates laden down with massive debts, queueing at the job centre.

 

[Guest77]

Yawn .

 

[Knobhead]

The JIB SJIB live in cloud cuckoo land! It’s a free market, the sooner you all realise that the better.

Did any of you stand up when the Electrical Trainee’s appeared? Did you hell as like! You’ve brought it on yourselves and for that reason I’ve no sympathy.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Confused.... I sub-contracted to a number of companies in the early years, whilst building up the business. Thank God for Thatcher, if it really was her personal creation.. lol - Being self employed allows me to choose work type and client type, I guess I must thank Thatcher for creating the self employed culture of the UK. Sorry but what is actually the problem again.

 

[Dcf]

1. I disagree, having worked on sites where the mates to sparks ratio was 70/30 and still a top job done. It depends on the foreman to be on top of things. Most of the jobs I was on were large commercial (schools/ hospitals/ theatre cinema/ student accommodation) and most of the installation did not require top sparks to install back boxes at the right height, pull cables in, put trunking up etc.

2. Having run a Limited Company, I can fully concur! However, I WAS one of those 'lads worth the money' as a mate, and people quickly realised that. I was given responsibility at an early stage, and I rose to it. I studied hard in my own time and took great pride in what I did. When I came to running a company and sourcing labour, I quickly realised that my approach to work was a bit 'old school' and not the norm.

I realise that reading this back, it sounds like I am blowing my own trumpet, so I want to add 'for the record' that I do not know it all and I really do wish I had the opportunity to learn the full spectrum of the industry, as there are HUGE gaps in my knowledge.

Peace.

Volts I must disagree with your disagree on point1
see I'm old school and I reckon your ratios should be 80% sparks to 20 % trainees /mates
that to me is an ideal scenario production/ snagging items wise.
as you don't want loads of boys sitting around with their thumb up there arse cos the foreman are elsewhere and snagging due to boys not fully understanding what they should be doing.
like you I run a show and I can fully understand the business aspects of what drives outfits to follow the 70-30 mates to sparks ratio.
doesnt mean it's right though
as I pointed out though ive met plenty sparks with 30 years"experience" who were absolute ****e in all respects but talked a good game so what's the way forward?
getting back to the days of the spark taking control of the whole package on a job would be one
that ways you would get the rates up to what they were.
we were top billing years ago believe it or not!
the general public believe it or not think if there is a wire on it you should be able to fix it
if I don't know how it works I'll make it my business to find out

 

[Des 56]

Poltics aside,the rate boils down to the simple question of availability or not of labour

If there is shortage of skilled sparks the employer has to either
(A)Up the rate to attract the skilled labour or
(B)Manipulate the work so that it can be done( minus the skill) which can open up greater availability

The availability of the spark is made greater by immigration,that is true
The availability of the skilled spark is reduced by non existent apprenticeships

Throw into the mix the dilution of the electrician trade by short coursers, the mess just gets worse (because the perception of what is a skilled spark becomes muddled)

Not just rates, but the whole of sparky land has become a nightmare with schemes,Electrical Trainee and imported labour
Thatcher started the nightmare Blair followed on much the same (maybe with a lot of deception for those who wanted a real labour government)

Conservatives,Labour,the Unions (initially Frank Chapple) the Niceic,recent immigration policies and the banks,they all played their part in the murder of our trade

 

[baldsparkies]

UKIP won't help. Not one little bit.

In my day the common market was what was voted for.
Its all changed beyond recognition over the years, certainly very different to when people old enough to remember cast the vote.
The open border policy
Major decisions being made for the UK in Brussels
And the fines and costs to the UK for remaining part of the EU may well be contributing to the present workplace climate.
At one time your democratic choice was one of 3 parties.
In democracy people deserve a choice.
UKIP may, or may not, do a better job. I don't know, and to be frank, neither does anyone else.
If they say they do, there lying.
Its all speculation and opinion with any party until it happens.
And then, even when they do get in, anything that goes wrong is always because they have had to pick up the pieces from the mess the last party made.
Its been the same old rhetoric for as long as I can remember.
My only concern is the way the established parties have banded together in such scathing attacks on UKIP.
Its almost like the main 3 enjoy membership of a unique club, and they don't want any new members to spoil that ??
The media have been at it as well.
Like it or not I worry about what's happening with mainstream politics, and just how far the treating people like mushrooms scenario goes.

 

[Loki]

UKIP may, or may not, do a better job. I don't know, and to be frank, neither does anyone else.
If they say they do, there lying.
Its all speculation and opinion with any party until it happens.
And then, even when they do get in, anything that goes wrong is always because they have had to pick up the pieces from the mess the last party made.
Its been the same old rhetoric for as long as I can remember.
My only concern is the way the established parties have banded together in such scathing attacks on UKIP.

I think their all as bad as each other, promises are made to get elected & then it goes to **** & the promises go out the window.
I think we need a new party called Best for Briton with No racism or racist comments like you get from UKIP & the uk system needs to be completely redone not tweaked as that's not working & wasting loads of tax payers money. I could go on about fraudulent expenses, services budget cuts, min wage & apprenticeship wage etc but I wont - rant over

Michael

 

[Octopus]

Just look at the Greek government and the promises they made versus the promises they will be breaking now and in the future

 

[Loki]

Just look at the Greek government and the promises they made versus the promises they will be breaking now and in the future

I can see it now, they will borrow as much as possible knowing they cant pay it back & then do a Eurozone exit.

Michael

 

[Grommit]

And there's me thinking the scum called recruitment agencies are the ones controlling what rates are paid.

 

[Hardwired]

Sorry been busy last wee while.

Yes I have an ECS card I am fully qualified. Been doing this for 10 years now. The reason I am stuck in house bashing is it is all I have ever done I have about maybe 2 years experience of commercial work and even that seems to only go to the guys who have been doing it forever or agency workers who are in false self employment and have no stability. I am looking to get into the commercial sector but not having much luck. Working on a housing development currently with a price of £30 to box the house and £85 to fit all accessories. Just about doable with a 15 minute break working 8 till 4.30. But that's hoping there are no blips in your day. Which there are always.