UK Is a standard Pendant a Class 2 fitting?

[bilabonic]

Hi All

I’m presuming a standard pendant is a class 2 fitting as the earth terminals are not needed as it’s a plastic fitting and it only has an insulated 2 core going to the actual ‘lamp part’.

Am I correct in thinking this?

The reason I ask is Screwfix have replied to someone’s question that it is a class 1 and requires an earth? Even though it is only used to loop in/out.

Can anyone clarify this for me.

Thanks

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Turning this around a bit: I don't believe class I equipment is allowed to have exposed live parts either, but there's loads of earthed metal lamps out there with either bayonet or screw lampholders, that are deemed to be class I.

I can only conclude that, as you say, the lampholder is excluded from the requirements

 

[bilabonic]

The reason i asked is that i have no earth on lighting circuits and i need an EICR.

have spoke to NAPIT and NECEIC and they are just as confused, one states it's ok and will pass EICR, the other states it will fail, class 2.

What pendant like fitting would work in this situation as they will all need replacing if they are indeed class 2.

Cheers

 

[Pretty Mouth]

The reason i asked is that i have no earth on lighting circuits and i need an EICR.

have spoke to NAPIT and NECEIC and they are just as confused, one states it's ok and will pass EICR, the other states it will fail, class 2.

What pendant like fitting would work in this situation as they will all need replacing if they are indeed class 2.

Cheers

Standard plastic pendant sets such as these have no exposed conductive metal parts, so the lack of CPC (earth conductor) doesn't make them any less safe in their installed state.

Wiring regulations require a CPC to every point, even to plastic fittings such as these, in case they should be changed in the future to class I fittings. So even if you change all your lights and switches to plastic, it will still receive a code, as it is non compliant.

Whether your inspector codes it as C3 (improvement recommended, but satisfactory) or C2 (potentially dangerous, unsatisfactory) is up to his or her own judgement.

 

[bilabonic]

Standard plastic pendant sets such as these have no exposed conductive metal parts, so the lack of CPC (earth conductor) doesn't make them any less safe in their installed state.

Wiring regulations require a CPC to every point, even to plastic fittings such as these, in case they should be changed in the future to class I fittings. So even if you change all your lights and switches to plastic, it will still receive a code, as it is non compliant.

Whether your inspector codes it as C3 (improvement recommended, but satisfactory) or C2 (potentially dangerous, unsatisfactory) is up to his or her own judgement.

I will relay this info to each electrician and get their verdict on it.

Thanks

 

[bilabonic]

Just spoke to NICEIC electrician and he stated these are fine as Class 2.

‘BG pendants have no exposed metalic parts and internals are not live unless you put a bulb in so they will be fine.
C3 if fittings are class 2. C3 if not.
consumer unit will need warning notice to say not to install metal fittings on lighting’

These fittings and again question asked/replied.

British General 6" Pendant Set Light Fitting BC White 3" 5 Pack - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Angled profile. For lighting applications. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

Cheers

 

[DPG]

Just spoke to NICEIC electrician and he stated these are fine as Class 2.

‘BG pendants have no exposed metalic parts and internals are not live unless you put a bulb in so they will be fine.
C3 if fittings are class 2. C3 if not.
consumer unit will need warning notice to say not to install metal fittings on lighting’

These fittings and again question asked/replied.

British General 6" Pendant Set Light Fitting BC White 3" 5 Pack - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Angled profile. For lighting applications. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

View attachment 95621View attachment 95622

Cheers

Loving that user name

 

[brianmoooore]

As Pretty Mouth wrote in post 33, there is no definitive answer to this, and it will ultimately come down to the opinion of whoever is conducting the EICR. I would have no problem with a modern pendant set (with earth parking terminal) used on pre 1970 wiring without a cpc, but that doesn't mean others wouldn't.

 

[bilabonic]

Cheers guys, i have also been informed that the Class 2 type MK/BG pendants have spring loaded pin terminals and only connect/make contact with the lamp in place. Again this obviously does not stop someone actually pushing the pins in i presume....

I will get some when i get chance, check them and reply back as someone above has stated differently.

 

[Aaron b]

I was looking at the safety pendants the other day. Does anyone know where they are required? I think pendants are like toasters and would never get approval if it was just invented.

 

[bilabonic]

I was looking at the safety pendants the other day. Does anyone know where they are required? I think pendants are like toasters and would never get approval if it was just invented.

I think this thread explains their use and my primary use for using them as they are class 2 and require no CPC, saves a very expensive/difficult partial rewire.

 

[timhoward]

I think this thread explains their use and my primary use for using them as they are class 2 and require no CPC, saves a very expensive/difficult partial rewire.

Not sure I agree - the rewire is long overdue anyway - and the safety feature is surely more about basic protection if there’s no bulb in it. Nothing to stop the households or DIY hero changing it to a pretty metal fitting from the charity shop.
Best Practise Guide 4 has helpful suggestions about how to handle no cpc on lighting circuit during EICRs.
In any case I’m not sure why the class II debate is relevant as the regs say class II can only be used as a means of protection in a supervised installation which a dwelling certainly isn’t.
I haven’t read whole thread - sorry if I’m repeating anything or misunderstanding the point!

 

[bilabonic]

Not sure I agree - the rewire is long overdue anyway - and the safety feature is surely more about basic protection if there’s no bulb in it. Nothing to stop the households or DIY hero changing it to a pretty metal fitting from the charity shop.
Best Practise Guide 4 has helpful suggestions about how to handle no cpc on lighting circuit during EICRs.
In any case I’m not sure why the class II debate is relevant as the regs say class II can only be used as a means of protection in a supervised installation which a dwelling certainly isn’t.
I haven’t read whole thread - sorry if I’m repeating anything or misunderstanding the point!

They suit my needs atm and both a JIB and an NICEIC electricians are willing to issue me an EICR with class 2 pendants (C3 with CU labelled warning notice to say not to install metal fittings on lighting).

This is a solution for me until the property is totally gutted/rewired some time later this year.

 

[timhoward]

both a JIB and an NICEIC electricians are willing to issue me an EICR with class 2 pendants (C3 with CU labelled warning notice to say not to install metal fittings on lighting).

Sure - that is what BPG 4 advises (via BPG 1 see below) too. I'd do that too in some circumstances - I had one recently where a Wylex rewireable board was cracked beyond hope exposing live parts. I wasn't going to refuse to change the CU because of the lack of CPC on lighting circuit, or leave the customer with no lights! (The lighting is getting rewired soon)

My point was more about the words "avoiding rewire" as it sounded as if you meant this was a long term solution - you've now clarified you meant "for the time being".

For the record, this is what BPG1 says, and it's a pragmatic compromise that contravenes the regs as I noted above (Class II protection in dwelling)

 

[bilabonic]

I just opened a ‘cheapy’ unbranded pendant and it had double insulated sign on the base.
Tested continuity an it’s constant whether pins are depressed are not.
So the base is class 2 and the holder is class 1.

I’ll test the BG class 2 when I have chance to see if pins indeed do disconnect without lamp.

 

[nicebutdim]

I can see how a rose could be considered as double insulated, but given the very definition of 'double insulated' I'd consider it quite a liberty to attach the symbol to any rose being sold as part of a pendant set or indeed to any standard bayonet fitting.