oldish domestic 3 phase install

[overskilled]

So went to look at a non working light fitting today in a house thats being sold, 2 way switching in small bedroom, otherswitch hidden behind wardrobe and jammed between on and off...
speaking to the seller, last owner was an old lady and there had been a bed beside the second switch when he had moved in...
mentioned the age of the install to him and that it was 3 phase, he then remarked that another local spark had told him it wasn't possible to upgrade the fuseboxes due to the 3phase....baulked at the work involved more like...
mish mash of solid core and stranded core PVC T+E, apart from the bundle of cables to the right of the rather ancient looking black switchfuse...looked fabric covered and I wouldn't have excluded the possibility of them being VIR......
Left some cards...so perhaps the new owner might be interested in getting this lot upgraded....
A few photos included...

(I noticed the missing MCB on the RHS of pic 2, but owner not interested in sorting as he was moving anyway)

 

[nickblake]

yep look like old braided VIR tails to the switch fuse , how can the DNO get away with installing the incomming tails like that with only basic insulation we'd get it if we did it like that

 

[overskilled]

its an utter mish mash....vir, imperial T+E, metric T+E, digital (!!!) 2 rate meter (house now on gas)

Frankly...it might be quicker and cheaper in labour terms to rip the lot out and startover from the meter onwards....

 

[overskilled]

That memrex senior switchfuse...anyone know if it contains asbestos?
As if I remember correctly the newer MEM Exel (to the right of the meter) does....

 

[nickblake]

​overskilled yes they do removed one a few weeks ago and it was the nasty stuff too

 

[Knobhead]

They contain so little asbestos as to not make them worth bothering about. If you’re that bothered about it, pull the fuse and spray the braid with glue.

 

[overskilled]

When do you reckon it dates to roughly tony?

 

[Knobhead]

About 1950's

 

[overskilled]

Cheers Tony, appreciated

 

[Engineer54]

Where is that DNO cable coming from, ...is this a PME'd overhead supply?? Can't make out what that DNO supply cable is either?? ...For some reason i can't blow it up to get a closer look!!

 

[ipf]

Where is that DNO cable coming from, ...is this a PME'd overhead supply?? Can't make out what that DNO supply cable is either?? ...For some reason i can't blow it up to get a closer look!!

Same here, where are the DNO fuses.... and what is that earth doing?

It's not the worst I've seen, by any means, after the incomer. Seen a lot more untidy set ups.
Before anyone buys the place it should be a full test...but then again, who knows ?

edit. I like the tape labelling on the doorframe

 

[overskilled]

Might have been overhead originally, house dates from turn of century and originally was in village that's now part of the town. Didn't get much chance to poke around as I was just there to fix the light....I have bigger versions wasn't sure what the forum max was so went with 1200 wide

 

[overskilled]

3 bakelite blocks methinks are the dno fuses, seen sp heads similar, last place was built in 1969 and had sp dno fuse the same...

 

[overskilled]

If you click the images a bigger version should open, well it does for me in Firefox

 

[ipf]

3 bakelite blocks methinks are the dno fuses, seen sp heads similar, last place was built in 1969 and had sp dno fuse the same...

Course, yes....figures. Clearer on pic 3. Just managed to zoom. Looks like split neutral.

Is that earth connected ?

 

[Engineer54]

Might have been overhead originally, house dates from turn of century and originally was in village that's now part of the town. Didn't get much chance to poke around as I was just there to fix the light....I have bigger versions wasn't sure what the forum max was so went with 1200 wide

It probably still is as the DNO supply is coming in from above, unless the location shown is a celler or basement!!

 

[overskilled]

It probably still is as the DNO supply is coming in from above, unless the location shown is a celler or basement!!

No overhead supplies in the area, (I should know...its just round the corner from where I live), quite a few older stone built properties in town, looks like the DNO decided it would be less upheaval to pull a new supply cable in / joint the old one when the supply went underground than move the service heads etc...

 

[Knobhead]

Many early supplies were cleated singles along the front or back either between the ground and first floor or under the eves. With a row of houses a fused breakout box would be fitted on the end wall of the first house.
The conductors were weird, two layers of oil impregnated paper which was over braded with cotton, the braiding was then impregnated with red lead. How do I know? That’s how my first house was supplied.

 

[ipf]

Many early supplies were cleated singles along the front or back either between the ground and first floor or under the eves. With a row of houses a fused breakout box would be fitted on the end wall of the first house.
The conductors were weird, two layers of oil impregnated paper which was over braded with cotton, the braiding was then impregnated with red lead. How do I know? That’s how my first house was supplied.

Quite a few in the old mining areas around here. Came across about 12 semis, which were originally owned by a small coal mine concern and provided for employees. The pit was closed in the 50's, or earlier, and the houses sold privately. Wired under the eves, in sets of 4, in split concentric. The incommers were high up on the kitchen walls. Can't remember if all the supplies were in one house per block of 4 but there were certainly 2 in one house. Should have taken some photos, never thought. Very old wiring too.

 

[Knobhead]

Quite a few in the old mining areas around here. Came across about 12 semis, which were originally owned by a small coal mine concern and provided for employees. The pit was closed in the 50's, or earlier, and the houses sold privately. Wired under the eves, in sets of 4, in split concentric. The incommers were high up on the kitchen walls. Can't remember if all the supplies were in one house per block of 4 but there were certainly 2 in one house. Should have taken some photos, never thought. Very old wiring too.

Around 1975 the then NWEB wanted to run ABC’s (Arial Bunched Cables) along the back of the houses to replace the singles mentioned above.

It was due to a fault at my house that the decision was made to upgrade the supplies and cut-outs. I’d already upgraded the cut-out in my house from 30A rewireable to a 60A Lucy unit. I got a bollixing from the area engineer, but he has laughing at the time.

So back to the ABC’s, they look bloody awful. A bit of an argument ensued when they informed me of their intensions. I won!

The original 19/.044’s fed 12 houses in blocks of 4 on each phase. So house 1→4 on blue, 5→8 on yellow and the last 9→12 on red. Think about it, it’s a neat way of running the cables as they peel off the main run in order.

Their revised plan was for 35mm² singles for the main run with 16mm² drops to each house. Another argument followed about volt drop and they gave up and put 50mm² in with 16mm² drops. All the four houses (including mine) on the red phase had electric cookers so Sunday lunchtime could have got interesting. Red also being the longest run. For some reason I had a 25mm² drop to a new NWEB approved 100A cut-out. Everyone else got 60A.

I even got narked at them about the drop to the house intake. I’d just re-rendered the house. They left the cables hanging loose and gave me a box of twin cleats. I did the job myself after the cement render had cured and was painted.

It pays being an argumentative sod at times.

The area engineer became a good friend and helped me on a later project. By rights I should have ended up in court over my antics with the cut-out. Cutting the seals is one thing, apparently changing the cut-out myself is a bit of a no no. I was fed up with the rewireable fuse blowing.

As I said at the start this was many years back. God knows what the reaction would be now.

 

[Engineer54]

Getting back to the photo's, what type of supply cable has been used, as the earth, (which looks as if it's not being used) has what looks like sleeving??

 

[ipf]

Getting back to the photo's, what type of supply cable has been used, as the earth, (which looks as if it's not being used) has what looks like sleeving??

Good question. Can't be swa, the external insulation cut is way too neat, unless most strands have been removed. And that earth is a puzzler.

 

[Silly Sausage]

If you mean the Earth on the supply cable, it looks to me like the first section, off the the cable, is sleeved, then becomes the black one under the red ones with the blue tape and goes off right where ever!

In case you didn't know, you can zoom in on pictures by holding Ctrl down and turning your mouse wheel.

 

[overskilled]

Ok couple of extra photos I found on the camera card....
Looks like concentric cable...
and looks like a trick of the light....earth dissappears off the right it seems and then runs back...hard to tell from the photo and the cable bundle...
As said didn't get a chance to poke around too much...

 

[Silly Sausage]

That's my theory out the window, that GY sleeved looks to be the Neutral into the meter!